a bは若山氏が違うといった？胎児胎盤の写真
c STAP細胞はキメラの胎盤・卵黄のう形成に寄与するとの棒グラフ（キメラ胎児の６割に貢献）
d STAP細胞は胎児形成能を持つOct4,Nalog,Rex1を発現するが、ESとの比較で示す
およびTSマーカー（Cdx2、Eomes, Elf5）の発現についてTSとの比較で示す
e STAP 幹細胞3種は、胎盤形成に寄与しない。 TSとのGFP細胞の割合の比較
f STAP 幹細胞、ES 細胞は Cdx2、Eomes,、Elf5 マーカーを発現しない。TSとの比較
レター論文は司書の奴と翻訳機の奴が英日対訳形式でここに張り付けてるから確認したら?
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12： 司書 ：2018/10/10(水) 10:51:31
(英文)
Here we have investigated the unique nature of STAP cells, focusing on their differentiation potential into the two major categories (embryonic and placental lineages) of cells in the blastocyst. We became particularly interested in this question after a blastocyst injection assay revealed an unexpected finding. In general, progeny of injected ES cells are found in the embryonic portion of the chimaera, but rarely in the placental portion (Fig. 1a; shown with Rosa26-GFP). Surprisingly, injected STAP cells contributed not only to the embryo but also to the placenta and fetal membranes (Fig. 1b and Extended Data Fig. 1a–c) in 60% of the chimaeric embryos (Fig. 1c).
なるほど、(Fig. 1a; shown with Rosa26-GFP)はES細胞のコンテクストの中に含まれているのね。
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Here we have investigated the unique nature of STAP cells, focusing on their differentiation potential into the two major categories (embryonic and placental lineages) of cells in the blastocyst. We became particularly interested in this question after a blastocyst injection assay revealed an unexpected finding. In general, progeny of injected ES cells are found in the embryonic portion of the chimaera, but rarely in the placental portion (Fig. 1a; shown with Rosa26-GFP). Surprisingly, injected STAP cells contributed not only to the embryo but also to the placenta and fetal membranes (Fig. 1b and Extended Data Fig. 1a–c) in 60% of the chimaeric embryos (Fig. 1c).
画像側には不合理な点はないんだね。本文側がこの画像と一致してないんだね。
まず(Fig. 1a; shown with Rosa26-GFP)は<shown with Rosa26-GFP>と対応させるのなら
Fig.1bでないといけない。そして本文自体がESコンテクストの中にあるので、
STAPコンテクストの中で論じられないといけないね。
これなら合理的に意味が通るのね。
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Here we have investigated the unique nature of STAP cells, focusing on their differentiation potential into the two major categories (embryonic and placental lineages) of cells in the blastocyst. We became particularly interested in this question after a blastocyst injection assay revealed an unexpected finding. In general, progeny of injected ES cells are found in the embryonic portion of the chimaera, but rarely in the placental portion (Fig. 1a). Surprisingly, injected STAP cells contributed not only to the embryo but also to the placenta and fetal membranes (Fig. 1b ; shown with Rosa26-GFP and Extended Data Fig. 1a–c) in 60% of the chimaeric embryos (Fig. 1c).
序でだから、若山さんの取り下げ理由も絡めて考えるといいな。
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(1) Figure 1a and b in the Letter both show embryos generated from STAP cells, not a comparison of ES- and STAP-derived chimaeric embryos, as indicated in the legend.
どちらも4Nと書かれているんだけどな。2Nと書かれているのはaだよ。dは4nとキャプションにあって、レターのとはしかもマウス背景も違う。
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(2) Extended Data Fig. 7d in the Article and Extended Data Fig. 1a in the Letter are different images of the same embryo and not, as indicated in the legends, a diploid chimaera embryo and tetraploid chimaera embryo.
これって、無茶苦茶だよな。1aはSTAP細胞キメラだと言ってるんでしょ。これの胎盤は光ってないぜ。光ってない方の増感もへったくれもないだろう。
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(3) There is an erroneous description in Fig. 1a in the Letter. The right panel of Fig. 1a is not a ‘long exposure’ image at the camera level but a digitally enhanced one.
こんなかしらねえ。
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Here we have investigated the unique nature of STAP cells, focusing on their differentiation potential into the two major categories (embryonic and placental lineages) of cells in the blastocyst. We became particularly interested in this question after a blastocyst injection assay revealed an unexpected finding.
Surprisingly, injected STAP cells contributed not only to the embryo but also to the placenta and fetal membranes (Fig. 1a; shown with Rosa26-GFP).
In general, progeny of injected ES cells are found in the embryonic portion of the chimaera, but rarely in the placental portion(Fig. 1b).
なるほど。この原稿は若山さんも知らないんだな。そして笹井さんの手に渡った時に
叙述の順番が入れ替えられた。しかし、カッコ内がそのまま残されてしまったと。
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Here we have investigated the unique nature of STAP cells, focusing on their differentiation potential into the two major categories (embryonic and placental lineages) of cells in the blastocyst. We became particularly interested in this question after a blastocyst injection assay revealed an unexpected finding.
In general, progeny of injected ES cells are found in the embryonic portion of the chimaera, but rarely in the placental portion(Fig. 1a; shown with Rosa26-GFP).
Surprisingly, injected STAP cells contributed not only to the embryo but also to the placenta and fetal membranes(Fig. 1b).
この原稿を若山さんが持っているということなのね。それで1aがsTAPで胎盤の光っている写真と
思い込んでる。
ところがいつの時点化で小保方さんが本文の記述順が逆になっていて、かつカッコ内が以前のままに
取り残されているということに気づいた。それで本文いじれないから写真のa,bを入れ替えて辻褄を
合わせたけどRosa26の説明がおかしくなっているということに気づかなかったのね。
でその更に後に<and Extended Data Fig. 1a–c) in 60% of the chimaeric embryos (Fig. 1c).>が
書き加えられたと。
ホームズ。これはFI-SCの実験ではないんだぜ。STAP細胞の胎盤貢献実験だ。
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When splenic CD45+ lymphocytes are exposed to pH 5.7 for 30 min and subsequently cultured in the presence of LIF, a substantial portion of surviving cells start to express the pluripotent cell marker Oct4 (also called Pou5f1) at day 2. By day 7, pluripotent cell clusters form with a bona fide pluripotency marker profile and acquire the competence for three-germ-layer differentiation as shown by teratoma formation.
それだけじゃないわ。アーティクルでも出会っている。ワンセンテンスごとに
小保方さんと肩を並べて添削していったんだわ。
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We tested the following three different genetic backgrounds of mice for STAP stem-cell establishment from STAP cell clusters, and observed reproducible data of establishment: C57BL/6 carrying Oct4-gfp (29 of 29), 129/Sv carrying Rosa26-gfp (2 of 2) and 129/Sv × C57BL/6 carrying cag-gfp (12 of 16).
a bは若山氏が違うといった？胎児胎盤の写真
c STAP細胞はキメラの胎盤・卵黄のう形成に寄与するとの棒グラフ（キメラ胎児の６割に貢献）
d STAP細胞は胎児形成能を持つOct4,Nalog,Rex1を発現するが、ESとの比較で示す
およびTSマーカー（Cdx2、Eomes, Elf5）の発現についてTSとの比較で示す
e STAP 幹細胞3種は、胎盤形成に寄与しない。 TSとのGFP細胞の割合の比較
f STAP 幹細胞、ES 細胞は Cdx2、Eomes,、Elf5 マーカーを発現しない。TSとの比較
泥縄ではあるけど、Gの意味が分からない。上のグロビンという説明があったような。
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CAG promoter
Hybrid construct consisting of the cytomegalovirus (CMV) enhancer fused to the chicken beta-actin promoter.
そういう泥縄の知識を前提にしてレター論文を読む。そこには(Fig. 1a; shown with Rosa26-GFP)とある。
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Here we have investigated the unique nature of STAP cells, focusing on their differentiation potential into the two major categories (embryonic and placental lineages) of cells in the blastocyst. We became particularly interested in this question after a blastocyst injection assay revealed an unexpected finding. In general, progeny of injected ES cells are found in the embryonic portion of the chimaera, but rarely in the placental portion (Fig. 1a; shown with Rosa26-GFP). Surprisingly, injected STAP cells contributed not only to the embryo but also to the placenta and fetal membranes (Fig. 1b and Extended Data Fig. 1a–c) in 60% of the chimaeric embryos (Fig. 1c).
アーティクル論文を読む。そこには<129/Sv carrying Rosa26-gfp (2 of 2)>がある。
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We tested the following three different genetic backgrounds of mice for STAP stem-cell establishment from STAP cell clusters, and observed reproducible data of establishment: C57BL/6 carrying Oct4-gfp (29 of 29), 129/Sv carrying Rosa26-gfp (2 of 2) and 129/Sv × C57BL/6 carrying cag-gfp (12 of 16).
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Both scientists were speaking to Bioscience Technology about Wakayama’s recent discovery that two of several STAP stem cell batches made for two embattled Nature papers were apparently not derived from a 129 mouse strain, as Wakayama was told. They were derived from F1 and B6 mouse strains.
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“This is just preliminary data, but strong data,” emailed Wakayama, an author on both Nature STAP papers. “Very sad results. However, that 129 mouse experiment data was not used for [primary conclusions of the] Nature papers. We must wait until final data comes from others.”
[ ]内は君の文章を記者が補っただけなんだろうが、そもそも君はいつから調査隊に入ったんだい。君は容疑者だぜ。
しかも責任著者だ。小保方さんや他の共著者に言わないで誰に通報しているんだい。Very sad results.が聞いて飽きれる。
お前が行った実験だろう。[ ]内が無いと、事実として論文に書いてあることと矛盾するから記者が補った。
実際はどうなんだい。返ってきたマウスがどうであったか以前に、渡したマウスはただのCAG-GFPなのかい、
それともRosa26-gfpだったのかい。君は答えていない。
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The erroneous 129 data landed in one of the papers, contrary to press reports, Wakayama says. (See below.) The data indeed do not affect the papers’ main thrust, but have spurred calls for closer re-evaluations of other STAP stem cell lines. Wakayama has been analyzing other lines. So far, he says, "only the 129 mouse data are not true."
なにがThe data indeed do not affect the papers’ main thrust, だい。Rosa26-gfpが
光ってるんだったらTCR再構成証明は不要なんだぜ。馬鹿な事言ってんじゃねえや。
"only the 129 mouse data are not true."って、お前は12012年11月末に小保方さんから
12/11ヴァージョン原稿を受け取った時からそこに129/Sv carrying Rosa26-gfp (2 of 2)ち
あったのを1年以上放置してたんだぞ。今更何がそこだけ間違いだ。忘却したんなら桃子に
何を言ったか確認してこい。
この下準備に情報流出したのはお前だよな。
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But in ensuing weeks, blogger scientists—notably Juuichi Jigen in Japan, Paul Knoepfler in the US, and anonymous PubPeer commenters--have uncovered problems with the papers. Four investigations were launched by Riken, Harvard, Nature, and the university that approved the PhD thesis of first author Haruko Obokata, Waseda. The most serious problems have included irreproducibility, and two sets of staining images that were supposed to prove pluripotency—but instead appeared to come from Obokata’s unrelated thesis, likely rendering them useless.
129背景でもできるかどうかを試すときにどうしてこれをRosa26-gfpだと言ったのかい?それとも
言ってないのに小保方さんがそう書いて、笹井さんと丹羽さんの質問に若山さんがそういったと
言わなかったとでも思ってるのか?
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Then, a few days ago, Wakayama finished a genetic analysis of two batches of STAP stem cells he made from STAP cells Obokata said came from the 129 mouse strain, and discovered another problem. For the papers, Wakayama had asked Obokata to make STAP cells from 129 mice so he could be sure the ability to dedifferentiate was not confined to the papers’ main mouse strain (B6), he says.
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Obokata gave him two batches of STAP cells she said she made from 129 cells. But recent developments led him to analyze the stem cells he developed from them. They didn’t come from 129.
Rosa26-gfpの記述が抜けてるぞ。ストレーンの問題にすり替えるなよ。
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“In my field, it is very important to show the same results in different strains,” Wakayama said via email. “For example, cloned mice can be easily generated from F1 mice. But it is too difficult to clone from many inbred strains, such as B6—except for the 129 mouse. “
The 129 strain was briefly mentioned, in both the first Nature paper, and the March 5 revised protocol of Riken’s Hitoshi Niwa (another respected stem cell scientist and co-author). In both, it was noted “reproducible establishment” of STAP cells occurred with B6, F1, and 129. “STAP stem cells with all these genetic backgrounds formed chimaera-forming activity,” both read.
お前は12/11ヴァージョンで笹井さんのリヴァイズ以前からRosa26-gfp記載があることを
知っていたと桃子に証言されてしまっている。
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The latter sentence seems to be an additional, if simple, “mistake,” Wakayama said via email. He made stem cells from the STAP cells she said came from 129 mice. But he never made chimeras from the 129 cells, as stated in the paper (and Niwa protocol). “I gave 129 mice to Dr. Obokata. Then, Dr. Obokata generated STAP cells from those mice, and gave me two STAP cells. I do not know how many STAP cells were generated at that time. I got just two. Then, I established two STAP stem cell lines from those two STAP cells. However, I did not make chimera from those cell lines. Then I left RIken." In another email he clarified: "I left Riken one year ago. Then we could not (establish) contact well between authors. Maybe Dr. Sasai, who wrote the papers, thought that I did chimera experiment of 129.”
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Next Steps
Asked about the new 129 mouse developments, a Riken spokesperson emailed: “We have received genetic analysis data on STAP stem cells from Professor Wakayama. However, this is still preliminary data, and we will cooperate with Professor Wakayama with regard to more detailed testing.”
a bは若山氏が違うといった？胎児胎盤の写真
c STAP細胞はキメラの胎盤・卵黄のう形成に寄与するとの棒グラフ（キメラ胎児の６割に貢献）
d STAP細胞は胎児形成能を持つOct4,Nalog,Rex1を発現するが、ESとの比較で示す
およびTSマーカー（Cdx2、Eomes, Elf5）の発現についてTSとの比較で示す
e STAP 幹細胞3種は、胎盤形成に寄与しない。 TSとのGFP細胞の割合の比較
f STAP 幹細胞、ES 細胞は Cdx2、Eomes,、Elf5 マーカーを発現しない。TSとの比較
