爽やかな朝だというのに。。。
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Interview with Dr. Teru Wakayama on STAP stem cells
Posted on February 27, 2014 by admin
I asked Dr. Teruhiko Wakayama, who goes by Teru to those who know him, if he would be willing to do a Q&A on the STAP stem cell situation.
(続き)
Teru was senior author on the STAP stem cell Nature letter on chimerism, but was not a senior (note this is a correction from an earlier version of this post) author on the other STAP paper, the Nature article on the production of STAP stem cells.
Teru kindly agreed to my invitation. He responded straightforwardly to what I thought were direct and sometimes tough questions. He also lays out a reasonable plan for STAP looking to the future. Thank you, Teru.
To me his answers reflect his great reputation as both a scientist and person. Teru is a true good citizen of the stem cell field. Teru is what I would call a “mensch”. I fully support Teru’s proposal that we give STAP stem cells a year to be reproduced.
1. How did the STAP stem cell collaboration begin between the Vacanti lab and your group? What made you decide to team up with them? Can you please tell us more about the beginnings of this research?
川上さんが悪いのね。
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Teru: Dr. Kojima (Vacanti’s lab) contacted me by e-mail to help with chimera experiments. At that time, the project looks very much impossible. That’s why I accepted. I like such impossible experiments.
First time, Dr. Obokata brought strange cells, and there was no chimera after blastocyst injection. However, nearly 2 year later, Dr. Obokata found a very good method to generate STAP cell. Then, we could obtain good chimera.
Dr. Obokata brought strange cellsってのは本音が出てるんじゃないかな。
でもそれではできなかったが、なぜできたかに関してDr. Obokata found
a very good method to generate STAP cell.と言ってるのは無論、酸浴の事だが、
この説明は嘘だよね。酸浴ではできなかった。
To me his answers reflect his great reputation as both a scientist
and person. Teru is a true good citizen of the stem cell field.
Teru is what I would call a “mensch”.ってのがどうもね。誰かが
頼んでるんだよね。こういうのって、かなり事前準備があるよね。
はい。
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Teru: I have not talked to Dr. Vacanti.
I had a talk with Dr. Obokata, but in Japan, the main problem is, not reproducibility, it is the mistakes of picture or band. Now RIKEN and outside people investigate that problem. But she said that in her lab, she can create STAP cell.
in her lab というのは理研のラボだから2013/10/23の改装終了後のことね。スタッフがついたのは2014/1/1からだわね。
そこでSTAP細胞を作れたと言ったというのね。疑義が出たのは2/13なんで、若山さんは2/27のこのインタヴューまでの
14日の間にそれを聞いたのね。どうして以前からできてることは言わないのかしらね。今までずっと作ってきたものを
受け取ってきたでしょうに。若山さんの頭の中ではすでに、山梨で出来てないから以前のはESで、自分が居なくなってから
できたと彼女が言ってるよと告げ口しているつもりなのかしら。
日本では画像とPCRバンドの誤りが論じられているのね。でも、
Now RIKEN and outside people investigate that problem.のthatproblemって
何を指しているわけなの?理研と外部の人々って日本の中のものじゃないの。だったら
その問題は画像とバンドでしょうに。それが
But she said that in her lab, she can create STAP cell.と繋げられると
それは再現性のも寛大に置き換えられてしまうわよね。ところが前文で
in Japan, the main problem is, not reproducibilityと述べられている。
真ん中のカンマが意味不明よね。
それがnot butの構文にできない理由として更に前の文章にbutが使われちまってるんだね。
I had a talk with Dr. Obokata, but in Japan, はその前にヴァカンティとは話ししてないと
言ってるんで、小保方さんと話したが、それは米国内ではなくて日本でだよとも
繋がり得る文章になってる。でも、新たに日本では再現性は問題になってないと繋がって
いるようにも受け止められる。更に、い再現性でなく、but、ミステイクが問題になっているんだと
使いたくても前にbutを使てるんで、コントは主語をitで立て直してる。これって考えようによっては
かなり意図的な構文レトリックだよね。
はい。
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Teru: Before I left RIKEN, I succeeded to make STAP cell from spleen. But only 1 time. At that time, Dr. Obokata taught me very well.
Now, some of my friends (not Japan) sent me e-mails, which, reported partial success (Oct expression only). Therefore I believe that within one year, someone will publish about STAP generation.
そうね。最初と最後との対比が面白いのよね。なぜこうなって行ったのか。
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4. Like most people, I am convinced that the mouse studies on STAP are solid and convincing. You personally have a top-notch reputation as a scientist around the world. People are instead more specifically concerned about the STAP stem cells themselves. One of the most common questions I am getting asked at this point is this–could the STAP cells have been contaminated with either mESCs or mouse iPS cells? Is that possible? How might that have happened?
はい。
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Teru: Thank you for your comment.
I established STAP-SC several times from STAP. It is unlikely that contamination would always have happened. In addition, we established STAP-SC from 129B6GFP mice. At that time, we did not have this strain ES cell.
When I succeeded to establish STAP-SC, the original STAP cells expressed Oct4-GFP very much. In this condition, the establishment is much easier than ES cell establishment from blastocyst.
In addition, whole mRNA expression data suggest that STAP-SC are not ES cell.
①When I succeeded to establish STAP-SC, the original STAP cells expressed Oct4-GFP very much.
②In addition, whole mRNA expression data suggest that STAP-SC are not ES cell.
